I hate these fishtards. They hate folding way too much.
PokerStars $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400)
Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Fishtard (5575 in chips)
Seat 6: Zen (4310 in chips)
Seat 9: Loose and Useless (3615 in chips)
Fishtard: posts the ante 25
Zen: posts the ante 25
Loose and Useless: posts the ante 25
Loose and Useless: posts small blind 200
Fishtard: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Zen [6c 7s]
Zen: raises 800 to 1200
So I raise with trash but he doesn't know that. I have played very tightly, never raised postflop, rarely made a move preflop, only shown down huge hands. It's been that kind of game.
Loose and Useless: folds
Fishtard said, "thats ok"
Fishtard: calls 800
He's played fairly tightly himself, so I expect him to have something at least decent, but not a big hand, because he'd push.
*** FLOP *** [Kc Tc 6s]
Fishtard: checks
"I have nothing."
Zen: bets 2000
"I have a king."
Of course, I don't. I only have a pair of sixes, but I figure that if he hit that, he would bet, as he has every single time he's hit the flop. If he calls with a draw, I at least have the pair to beat him with.
Fishtard: calls 2000
"I don't care."
See, I didn't continuation bet. I made a big bet. That says, I hit the flop very hard. He hasn't seen me bet a draw, so he can probably count out QJ or a flush draw hoping to get lucky. Besides, it's way too big a bet for that. But he didn't raise, so no king for him. I'm thinking he has the flush draw.
Unless you have a king here yourself, this is an easy fold for a reasonable player. I am clearly potcommitted and I'm backing myself in this hand. You don't have the odds to call with a draw. With a big combo draw, you should push, because you are now potcommitted anyway.
It looks an obvious call when you know what I have, but put yourself in his shoes. I raised PF, and I haven't done that much, and now I've bet the flop big.
*** TURN *** [Kc Tc 6s] [Jh]
Fishtard: checks
Zen: bets 1085 and is all-in
"I really do have it."
Fishtard: calls 1085
"I really don't care."
So I'm thinking, he will definitely show me a badly played king or a flush draw.
But no.
*** RIVER *** [Kc Tc 6s Jh] [2h]
Zen said, "sigh"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Fishtard: shows [Ts Qd] (a pair of Tens)
What teh fuck?!
Zen: shows [6c 7s] (a pair of Sixes)
Fishtard collected 8845 from pot
Okay, stupid me. I know better than to run big bluffs at this level. It will all too often be this hand that they've decided that fuck it, they will make a stand with any piece of the board. That's all the guy's done. He thinks he's beaten but says fuck it, if it's a bluff, I win the tourney.
So I'm playing another game. We're at the bubble. The bigstack is UTG when I'm BB, and three, four times he minraises, and I have trash and just fold. He really does have a big enough stack that I can't hope to make him fold, especially since he got the stack by making very very loose calls.
Finally, I pick up A8 and push over his steal. He turns over QT. Sigh. You don't need to be told that he flops a ten and turns a queen, do you?
So the next tourney, I literally don't play a hand before the bubble. I'm not kidding. I fold everything. I pick up A3 in the big blind and some tard limps. The flop comes K53 with two of my ace's suit. I check, he bets weakish and I checkraise allin.
One of four things can happen. He has a weak king and folds because I'm saying I have hit that hard; he has no king and folds because his steal has just gone bung; he has no king and calls but is behind my pair and if he hits the ace he's drawing to he still loses; he has a weak king and calls, and I have six and a bit outs to get lucky.
Well, maybe next time I'll be against the stealer or someone who can lay down a king. Of course, I don't think this guy made a bad play. Nor me. When short, you've got to do that kind of thing. The combination of what it's likely the other guy has (nothing), the chance that he'll lay down hands that beat you (small but not none) and the chance that you'll improve even if he is beating you (about 33%, so not negligible) make it a decent play when the alternative is to fold, and try to make headway with 6BB.
I have no excuse for tilt though. I pick up KJs in the BB and check after two limpers. It's not really worth trying the push with the stacks we have. The flop comes K53 and the small blind leads out. I don't believe he has much here, so I call, but the other limper minraises. This says "crap king" to me, so I call that too, and push the turn when it bricks.
I know, I know. I should just have folded the flop, if not the first time round, then to the minraise. Or pushed, if I really did feel I was ahead. Or even pushed preflop and not worried about the awkward stack sizes.
Unbelievably, the fishtard turned up K5. Not even suited. Now obviously he's going to lose a lot of money at poker over his playing lifetime. But not today. Today he won mine.
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10 comments:
boots sez:
"Unbelievably, the fishtard turned up K5. Not even suited. Now obviously he's going to lose a lot of money at poker over his playing lifetime. But not today. Today he won mine."
Pure dumb luck innit. Right.
No dude. A guy who is losing nearly half his buyin every game saw the future. Pity for him he can't do it more often.
boots sez:
We'll probably never see it in anything close to a similar way, Zen. I say "luck" is the thing that'll kill you deader than a hammer when the chips are down and it'll count, so "luck" is what you deal with first. You're looking for the maths to even out over a poker-playing "career". Apples and oranges.
I say a player who makes the moves he does like described by Zen will NEVER be a successful player unless he improves and refines his game dramatically.
Hang in there Zen.
Back again Zen and NO NEW POST?! Depressed? Not playing? Whazzup?!!!
Maybe this'll inspire you to blog a bit more. You've been tagged!
Go to my blog to see what and why. Any gripes, blame Astin! Ha!
Not an unreasonable hand. If you want my opinion I'll give it to you.
I welcome opinions, so please do let me have it. I am a learner at poker, very much so, so I need to be told when I have it wrong (or right).
3 handed, middle pair isn't bad. I WAS going to say that he should lead at the flop, but then I did the math and he commits himself with even a 1k bet, and a smaller bet is just plain silly.
That being said, he should probably just set you all in on the flop. c/r'ing you all in is slightly worse since you have a tight range.
As for your play, on the flop I like a shove here, especially if you don't want to get called. The other line I am thinking is to bet 900 and then check behind if he falls.
On the turn, check behind and then re-evalutate the river. What on earth is he going to call with that you beat? a str8 draw is really the only thing that you are beating, and it is calling anyway. If he is weak, he might give you the free showdown you need if he has ace-high or even in this case, a pair of tens.
The point is, you aren't so short on chips that you have to put it all in with a pair of 6s.
I hope this helped you.
- Joe
I have been thinking about it, and I actually don't agree.
I have a solid read on him. He has bet *every time* he has hit the flop, and check/folded otherwise. If I push, I think he likely calls with middle pair. But I look (to me) like someone who has a king and wants to close out the flush draw but still get paid. I think my bet unambiguously said that.
As I note, I potcommitted myself, so he can't think I'm bluffing. So what does he think he's beating?
I'm confident that my image, to anyone who has been paying the slightest bit of attention, is ultratight. I've played few hands, won chips by making strong hands not by pushing anyone round, and have checked and folded on flops I've missed.
I think the mistake I made in this hand, and I'm learning not to make it any more, is to assume that a player who has been very tight is actually clued in a bit about the game. It's the "paying attention" bit that is lacking.
Look, I read 2p2 when I'm playing, and blogs, and news articles etc. Which is bad. But I still at least have an idea who's loose, who's tight, who's bluffed a lot, who hasn't. But a player like this doesn't because he simply doesn't care.
Joe, middle pair is a decent hand threehanded, but I'm confident you are not checkcalling with it against a rock who has just put in a bit more than 2/3 the pot. (Of course, you're not calling the PFR with QT off, but that's another story. Ultimately, that's where I lost the hand. He picked this one to gamble on. Once you've called a raise with trash like that, you're pretty much putting your stack in if you hit at all.) Well, I'm not, anyway.
Exactly
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